As someone who has not had this happen to them, I found this to be thought provoking. Recently I learned that someone you named in your podcast had took someone's work and said it was their daily prayer. I was shocked to see that it was taken from someone else when I saw the whole work posted on Instagram. With that said, I believe you are right. Work is often borrowed, stolen from others. It is a hard concept to really wrap your head around. Where am I guilty? Where am I innocent? Thank you for the topic.
This was SO interesting. This is coming from a completely ignorant POV (mine): NONE OF THIS OCCURRED TO ME while listening to his podcast! In fact, what I *did* do was send it to so many male friends. It's fucked up for me to have reacted that way but something about Huberman's look/style made me think, FINALLY something my guy friends will maybe listen to, as opposed to the times I've sent things from you, or Veronica Valli, or whoever that is a woman, and that they, straight up, think is just for women. And I'm sorry that my mind went there instead of thinking about the credit. Now I want to listen to it again. I don't remember him crediting anyone, in fact, I think he approached it more like "Hey, I'm a neuro, I don't have anything against people who drink personally, but I'm just telling you it's bad." Something about it was ... Joe Rogan-ish, and I hope it reaches a new audience. BUT YES, you and many others should have at least been mentioned. If it's ANY consolation, that's how most of us fans/NA folks who share quit lit and other tips speak about you all. I see your name flying around many comments about quitting drinking. <3
It was great to hear your voice Holly. Your words were thoughtful, thought provoking and well spoken. I hope to hear more from you.
Alcohol on an airplane makes no sense to me. Before my recovery I would absolutely drink more when I was traveling. Having it available at the airport and on the airplane made it too easy for me and I would drink every time. More than usual.
Now that I’m sober I’m wondering: What happens in an emergency? Who’s responsible for these inebriated passengers? There is an abundance of alcohol at the airports. Do we also need to add it in the sky? Seems so strange to me now.
Sep 6, 2022·edited Sep 6, 2022Liked by Holly Whitaker
As a woman in recovery, a writer and a coach (with an online program), I am guilty of passing off other people's ideas as my own, including yours. The existential question is when does intellectual property stop belonging to an individual? As the cultural narrative around alcohol evolves, how do we give credit where credit is due? At what point does it belong to all of us--including the asshat on the podcast delivering to a large audience that's never heard it before? As a drinker, I was a hard-core vegan/organic/sustainable farming advocate, so your rant about WE'RE DRINKING ROCKET FUEL was one of my first laugh-out-loud moments in sobriety. OMG. Brilliant. And now, I use that trope often. Sometimes I credit you, and sometimes it flows out of my mouth in a different way--like, we're so concerned about our gut health and then we drink hand sanitizer. I'm not plagiarizing--I've changed the words and the analogy, but you were the one that stuck that in my face. I don't know where I heard someone refer to sobriety as a superpower, but I've taken that and changed it to "sobriety isn't a superpower...drinking is a fucking handicap." Words, phrases, analogies and metaphors float through my brain all of the time, weaving and recombining themselves into essays and webinars and posts. I read and listen like I'm addicted. Ideas come out of my mouth. I know I didn't think this shit up, and I'm working hard to create my own brand of bullshit. And yet, as you say, it's impossible. I'm in the second wave of the alcohol revolution. I am standing on the shoulders of others. I do my best to acknowledge those who have paved the way, but I'm also grateful that the cats out of the bag.
Holly, This audio was eye-opeining! So this is the work you have been doing....you were excellent at communicating this dilemma and I believed you completely when you said "I don't care if someone uses my work, but it doesn't mean I won't be triggered." I loved your summation that each of us are a unique expression of already existing ideas. For me, not being a writer, it resonated with my recognition of my own prejudices and judgmental thoughts that pop into my head when someone is different than me; I am working to bring deep self-awareness to this. So, it happens, and I have a thought, but I don't have to believe it and I can explore where it came from. I feel my personal relationships are my most important contribution to healing what ails us now. Seriously, you are a natural at audio.....
Love hearing your voice, you are so articulate and the world really needs to hear the voices of intelligent, thoughtful, articulate women. Im old and have been sober for a long time and have done a lot of thinking, reading and have a lot of lived experience and I'm really aware of the fact that while there aren't that many new ideas, there is much to be said for new voices, new perspectives and new approaches and increasing diversity among all of those. At the same time the issues of appropriation, plagiarism, ego, social media and making money - and to what extent these themes are all underpinned by the underlying cultural assumptions around capitalism & colonization need to be explored and voiced and I love hearing your curiosity and the way you are exploring all of these things.
I’m in Canada and it’s a big big deal for Canada Health (or whoever it is) to change the drinking guidelines. I heard they are thinking of putting warning labels on packaging as well- like tobacco and cigarettes. It’s definitely being discussed here in Canada!! Which is what we need - more exposure that alcohol is ethanol and poison!
I DO NOT understand why alcohol is still permitted on flights either! Soooo crazy! All these stories about people being restrained and detained - do we not realize alcohol is in play in almost all these situations?? Does not make sense! But of course, if the airlines are making money, they will keep doing it. 😳😳😳
I found this really thought provoking Holly and your exploration is highly nuanced and draws no neat conclusions because there aren’t any! I wonder if the idea of ‘ownership’ itself isn’t the problem. Ownership turns everything into a commodity that can be traded - land, people, ideas whatever. Pre-colonisation the Māori (indigenous people of Aotearoa New Zealand) had no concept of ownership, they thought in terms of ‘guardianship’ recognising that all things have their own life force - mauri - that should be honoured and respected. The idea of individual ownership lies at the root of capitalism (although obviously around before that - Romans slaves ownership for example) so when we get hooked on the idea of having our ideas stolen, maybe it’s a form of internalised capitalism? I like Liz Gilbert’s writing about ideas having their own lives, that we sometimes are chosen as the channels through which they find their way out into the world. But once they are out there, they take on their own lives and go where they will. If we are lucky we get to see our fingerprints in them, if we are lucky, others recognise our fingerprints in them, but although we birthed them we did not in some sense create them and we do not ‘own’ them. The problem is that we live in a system that is predicated on everything being ownable, tradeable and monetisable (🤮) and where we are encouraged to be more obsessed about what other people think about us than what impact we are having in the world.
I love listening to you in this format Holly, more please! 🙏
This is definitely HELPFUL! Thanks for doing this. The points are making me feel more peace and I absolutely loved the strongness of moving forward , abundance and expansion.
Great content and much-needed. As you so eloquently put it, in the end one has to decide whether to devote energy to defending one's ego (by fighting with people who use your ideas) or to having more ideas, all of which are derivative to some extent. Linda Kohanov, my mentor, refers to the concept of "cathedral thinking" in her book Power of the Herd -- cathedrals take hundreds of years to build. You are building a cathedral and it's self-defeating as well as counter to the overarching purpose to get twisted up about who put what block of stone where. And we should all do our best to give credit where and when possible.
I love seeing credit given to those who came before, whose work is often not recognized in the way it deserves.
As someone who has not had this happen to them, I found this to be thought provoking. Recently I learned that someone you named in your podcast had took someone's work and said it was their daily prayer. I was shocked to see that it was taken from someone else when I saw the whole work posted on Instagram. With that said, I believe you are right. Work is often borrowed, stolen from others. It is a hard concept to really wrap your head around. Where am I guilty? Where am I innocent? Thank you for the topic.
Thank you Holly. It’s always so nice to hear from you, brightens my day
This was SO interesting. This is coming from a completely ignorant POV (mine): NONE OF THIS OCCURRED TO ME while listening to his podcast! In fact, what I *did* do was send it to so many male friends. It's fucked up for me to have reacted that way but something about Huberman's look/style made me think, FINALLY something my guy friends will maybe listen to, as opposed to the times I've sent things from you, or Veronica Valli, or whoever that is a woman, and that they, straight up, think is just for women. And I'm sorry that my mind went there instead of thinking about the credit. Now I want to listen to it again. I don't remember him crediting anyone, in fact, I think he approached it more like "Hey, I'm a neuro, I don't have anything against people who drink personally, but I'm just telling you it's bad." Something about it was ... Joe Rogan-ish, and I hope it reaches a new audience. BUT YES, you and many others should have at least been mentioned. If it's ANY consolation, that's how most of us fans/NA folks who share quit lit and other tips speak about you all. I see your name flying around many comments about quitting drinking. <3
It was great to hear your voice Holly. Your words were thoughtful, thought provoking and well spoken. I hope to hear more from you.
Alcohol on an airplane makes no sense to me. Before my recovery I would absolutely drink more when I was traveling. Having it available at the airport and on the airplane made it too easy for me and I would drink every time. More than usual.
Now that I’m sober I’m wondering: What happens in an emergency? Who’s responsible for these inebriated passengers? There is an abundance of alcohol at the airports. Do we also need to add it in the sky? Seems so strange to me now.
Love hearing your voice. more of you talking to us. No need for interviews. More Holly thoughts.
As a woman in recovery, a writer and a coach (with an online program), I am guilty of passing off other people's ideas as my own, including yours. The existential question is when does intellectual property stop belonging to an individual? As the cultural narrative around alcohol evolves, how do we give credit where credit is due? At what point does it belong to all of us--including the asshat on the podcast delivering to a large audience that's never heard it before? As a drinker, I was a hard-core vegan/organic/sustainable farming advocate, so your rant about WE'RE DRINKING ROCKET FUEL was one of my first laugh-out-loud moments in sobriety. OMG. Brilliant. And now, I use that trope often. Sometimes I credit you, and sometimes it flows out of my mouth in a different way--like, we're so concerned about our gut health and then we drink hand sanitizer. I'm not plagiarizing--I've changed the words and the analogy, but you were the one that stuck that in my face. I don't know where I heard someone refer to sobriety as a superpower, but I've taken that and changed it to "sobriety isn't a superpower...drinking is a fucking handicap." Words, phrases, analogies and metaphors float through my brain all of the time, weaving and recombining themselves into essays and webinars and posts. I read and listen like I'm addicted. Ideas come out of my mouth. I know I didn't think this shit up, and I'm working hard to create my own brand of bullshit. And yet, as you say, it's impossible. I'm in the second wave of the alcohol revolution. I am standing on the shoulders of others. I do my best to acknowledge those who have paved the way, but I'm also grateful that the cats out of the bag.
Holly, This audio was eye-opeining! So this is the work you have been doing....you were excellent at communicating this dilemma and I believed you completely when you said "I don't care if someone uses my work, but it doesn't mean I won't be triggered." I loved your summation that each of us are a unique expression of already existing ideas. For me, not being a writer, it resonated with my recognition of my own prejudices and judgmental thoughts that pop into my head when someone is different than me; I am working to bring deep self-awareness to this. So, it happens, and I have a thought, but I don't have to believe it and I can explore where it came from. I feel my personal relationships are my most important contribution to healing what ails us now. Seriously, you are a natural at audio.....
Love hearing your voice, you are so articulate and the world really needs to hear the voices of intelligent, thoughtful, articulate women. Im old and have been sober for a long time and have done a lot of thinking, reading and have a lot of lived experience and I'm really aware of the fact that while there aren't that many new ideas, there is much to be said for new voices, new perspectives and new approaches and increasing diversity among all of those. At the same time the issues of appropriation, plagiarism, ego, social media and making money - and to what extent these themes are all underpinned by the underlying cultural assumptions around capitalism & colonization need to be explored and voiced and I love hearing your curiosity and the way you are exploring all of these things.
I’m in Canada and it’s a big big deal for Canada Health (or whoever it is) to change the drinking guidelines. I heard they are thinking of putting warning labels on packaging as well- like tobacco and cigarettes. It’s definitely being discussed here in Canada!! Which is what we need - more exposure that alcohol is ethanol and poison!
I DO NOT understand why alcohol is still permitted on flights either! Soooo crazy! All these stories about people being restrained and detained - do we not realize alcohol is in play in almost all these situations?? Does not make sense! But of course, if the airlines are making money, they will keep doing it. 😳😳😳
I found this really thought provoking Holly and your exploration is highly nuanced and draws no neat conclusions because there aren’t any! I wonder if the idea of ‘ownership’ itself isn’t the problem. Ownership turns everything into a commodity that can be traded - land, people, ideas whatever. Pre-colonisation the Māori (indigenous people of Aotearoa New Zealand) had no concept of ownership, they thought in terms of ‘guardianship’ recognising that all things have their own life force - mauri - that should be honoured and respected. The idea of individual ownership lies at the root of capitalism (although obviously around before that - Romans slaves ownership for example) so when we get hooked on the idea of having our ideas stolen, maybe it’s a form of internalised capitalism? I like Liz Gilbert’s writing about ideas having their own lives, that we sometimes are chosen as the channels through which they find their way out into the world. But once they are out there, they take on their own lives and go where they will. If we are lucky we get to see our fingerprints in them, if we are lucky, others recognise our fingerprints in them, but although we birthed them we did not in some sense create them and we do not ‘own’ them. The problem is that we live in a system that is predicated on everything being ownable, tradeable and monetisable (🤮) and where we are encouraged to be more obsessed about what other people think about us than what impact we are having in the world.
I love listening to you in this format Holly, more please! 🙏
So much wisdom, Holly! Your truth is your legacy❤️
This is definitely HELPFUL! Thanks for doing this. The points are making me feel more peace and I absolutely loved the strongness of moving forward , abundance and expansion.
I would love this if there were a transcript because I basically for
Some reason have an aversion to watching videos or listening to audio. Idk why????
Great content and much-needed. As you so eloquently put it, in the end one has to decide whether to devote energy to defending one's ego (by fighting with people who use your ideas) or to having more ideas, all of which are derivative to some extent. Linda Kohanov, my mentor, refers to the concept of "cathedral thinking" in her book Power of the Herd -- cathedrals take hundreds of years to build. You are building a cathedral and it's self-defeating as well as counter to the overarching purpose to get twisted up about who put what block of stone where. And we should all do our best to give credit where and when possible.
Incredible
Thanks!
So may ideas and ways to think -
So appreciate your way of being in the world.